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Scholar
#26 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 8:10 AM
I don't see any point to relgious clothes in the sims, because there seems to be no religion in the sims. It makes it look out of place to me. Then at the same time, you can always mod in a religious trait and do whatever.

That said, there are cultures where hijab like clothes exist that have nothing to do with religion. A hijab without putting the veil in front of the face (wich is simply part of the scarf), looks like many traditional old woman head scarves in many countries. Where its folded that way to make the veil protect against (cold, dust, sun, take your pick). Also, hijab's existed in arabic countries before islam and was originally traditional clothing.

And I also get tired of the blatant racism surrouding Islam. Most of the ppl in the world (regardless of background) just want to be safe and raise their kids.
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Instructor
#27 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 8:31 AM Last edited by Mspigglypooh : 5th Sep 2019 at 8:45 AM.
Quote: Originally posted by mithrak_nl
I don't see any point to relgious clothes in the sims, because there seems to be no religion in the sims. It makes it look out of place to me. Then at the same time, you can always mod in a religious trait and do whatever.

That said, there are cultures where hijab like clothes exist that have nothing to do with religion. A hijab without putting the veil in front of the face (wich is simply part of the scarf), looks like many traditional old woman head scarves in many countries. Where its folded that way to make the veil protect against (cold, dust, sun, take your pick). Also, hijab's existed in arabic countries before islam and was originally traditional clothing.

And I also get tired of the blatant racism surrouding Islam. Most of the ppl in the world (regardless of background) just want to be safe and raise their kids.


Serious question, but is racisim or racist the correct term to use in this case?

ETA: To comment on the OP, I believe if EA is going to add certain items or clothing that have to do with religion they should be fair in representing all correctly and equally. I don't have an issue with the content added despite knowing EA's real intentions behind it. A lot of different simmers want to be able to have their own experiences in the game and there's nothing wrong with that and if these items will help them with that then its welcomed by me wholeheartedly. Again as long as they are fair. They shouldn't half ass add something and then pick and choose what they want the fan base isn't going to appreciate nitpicking what maxis believes is least offensive and controversial. At the end of the day, eventually, everyone will want representation. I also believe if they were going to add anything back "religiously" it should have been what was in the sims medieval. It should have stayed fictional. That would have also been fair.
Scholar
#28 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 9:59 AM
Why do some people always seem to confuse symptom with cause? Hijab is a religious term. But a headscarf is just a headscarf (hijab is not a phyical thing, but can be worn as a scarf or some other type of clothing). In the case of some! of the muslim countries the headscarf is mandatory clothing to be used to show hijab. In other countries it can be a different type of clothing (mandatory or by choice). Anyway, the headscaft being worn that way that EA showed have been worn throughout the ages in countries in N Africa, Europe and Asia for practical and social reasons and are still being worn today (mostly older generations though) for non religious reasons. If they are used as hijab in a country, it usually means they were already used before islam existed.

Banning these type of things is only fighting symptoms, not the cause. The idea that if a repressed woman is not allowed to wear a headscarf anymore, they don't suddenly become less repressed, is confusing symptom and cause. The result is only that the repression becomes less visible and she might even feel being caught between anvil and hammer, because she gets being told from two sides what is not allowed.
This is a typical tactic abused by politicians to attract voters in a cheap way without having to make meaningful differences. With as result that random normal used items become the symbol for a specific cause. Unfortunately media happily joins the same bandwagon. And nowadays even games, wtf?!

The easy solution here for EA is to call it a headscarf. Everyone will call you crazy for wanting them to ban headscarves from the game. And any muslim sims player can still use them as hijab (seriously, this is not always the result of indoctrination or repression). Or just give them to a farmer to protect from the elements or whatever.
Mad Poster
#29 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 1:14 PM
Y’all still arguing over optional content for virtual people, and confusing a hijab with a niqab?

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Instructor
#30 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 1:45 PM
More so debating than arguing lol but I, personally, just wanted to add my two cents I guess lol. It's insane that this has gone as far as it has, but as far as what I've seen from Maxis they haven't exactly been fair when adding different items that have meaning behind them, culturally and religiously. The same can be said about the list of words you can use in the gallery. I can't tell you how many times I tried to upload a restaurant I created called the Bristo Monte Cristo and it wouldn't allow me because of the Cristo which means Christ. However they have a sandwich in the game called the Monte Cristo. Even Vlads original name cannot be uploaded to the gallery, So it's like what? Lol I just wish they were most consistent with things if I'm honest.
Mad Poster
#31 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 1:52 PM
I agree with that! I think the argument should be about that, not about what is effectly a head scarf.

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Test Subject
#32 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 2:29 PM
I don’t understand why it’s that big of a deal. It’s not the first time they patched in cultural CAS/Build objects. And we have different types of headscarves/turbans from City Living and the Caribbean patch.


And since we’re on religion: there are people who cover their heads/hair outside of Islam.
Field Researcher
#33 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 2:47 PM
There seems to be a great deal of confusion about this head covering. First it is Maxis who chose to use the word Muslim Inspired content. Muslim is not a people, race, a country, or a culture. It's a religion. It means to follow Muhammed and the Islamic faith. It as the same as saying a Christian to explain the person's religion. It would become clear if they had added something that determines a representation of another faith, like saying we are offering Christian Inspired content. It's the same difference. It is Maxis that chose to add religion (only one) into the conversation. And it is EA who is deleting threads discussing religion when it is them that decided to use the term Muslim as if it's a race, no it's a religion. The head covering is very much a part of a requirement to dress modestly and cover the head. Sure, it can be something other than the hijab but that is the standard. It is a practice of that religion. Some can spin this however they want, as if it's been going on millions of years, but quite frankly it is a choice the woman makes if she wants to adhere to her religious practices or not. But it is in the text to cover the head and why it is worn, it isn't worn to keep the hair from getting messed up. Or to protect from the sun, but a statement, I'm Muslim (religious Islamic) and I am doing my duty to cover to myself. Thererfore, Maxis and EA have decided (and it is they who used the term Muslim and not MiddleEastern) this is the religion they want to support in the game and closing any thread that points out facts to them. Muslim does not mean MiddleEastern culture, it's a term for following Islam, and covering the head is a practice and requirement of Islam still yet, today. But in some circles they no longer practice that edict, as they may be more modern and adapted western attire and feel free to not wear one. But it is the one thing that says to the world I'm following my faith by wearing one in public. To dress modestly and cover oneself and not show arms, legs, bossom and head. It is a religious practice to do so. It has nothing to do with fashion nor living in a hot country. Maxis and EA know this and because they are shutting down anyone who discusses the practices of being a Muslim when it's them who decided to promote a religion then the hypocrisy is on them and not the community in any form or fashion.

They used the word Muslim as if it's a race, and a culture when it's a faith, and shows their ignorance or their hypocrisy one or the other, to not understand why Muslim women wear these. It's the same as a priest wearing a white collar, in one respect, and if players don't get one of those etc. then hypocrit of diversity seems more likely on (EA)
Mad Poster
#34 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 3:14 PM
I’m chocking it up to misspeak. “Middle Eastern Inspired Clothing.” It’s 100% wrong, but accidents happen. Did y’all see the new doors and windows!? It’s like a ministuff pack dropped today. I already have my houses ready for stairs.

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Instructor
#35 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 4:33 PM
Quote: Originally posted by matrix54
I’m chocking it up to misspeak. “Middle Eastern Inspired Clothing.” It’s 100% wrong, but accidents happen. Did y’all see the new doors and windows!? It’s like a ministuff pack dropped today. I already have my houses ready for stairs.


I cannot wait to build/renovate with that tbh lol I got excited about it as I want to give Oasis springs another run through with them (I feel like they will fit quite well there). The one thing I can say I do enjoy about the game is renovating and light building
Instructor
#36 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 4:55 PM
Quote: Originally posted by spidergirl79
We already got turbans in the game, nobody called that PC.


I'm telling you: the difference is presentation. One of those was calmly and quietly included in a pack with no special attention drawn to it, the other had spotlights put on it.

The content itself in this patch isn't worthy of question, but the way EA/Maxis garners attention via such content absolutely is. What's more sincere: if I gift you something without even letting you know I was the one that gifted it, or if I make sure everyone on the planet knows WHAT A GREAT GUY I am whilst giving you a gift in a very rehearsed and carefully calculated way? The answer's obvious.
Theorist
#37 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 5:24 PM
Quote: Originally posted by matrix54
Y’all still arguing over optional content for virtual people...


Do people have the option via Origin not to download something from a patch? As I understand it, people have to jump through hoops via a mod MCCC or whatever it is so townies don't end up wearing 'optional' content. If townies show up wearing stuff that is not wanted, I not feeling the optional part.


Quote: Originally posted by DeservedCriticism
I'm telling you: the difference is presentation. One of those was calmly and quietly included in a pack with no special attention drawn to it, the other had spotlights put on it.

The content itself in this patch isn't worthy of question, but the way EA/Maxis garners attention via such content absolutely is. What's more sincere: if I gift you something without even letting you know I was the one that gifted it, or if I make sure everyone on the planet knows WHAT A GREAT GUY I am whilst giving you a gift in a very rehearsed and carefully calculated way? The answer's obvious.


^^^ Yes, this.
Mad Poster
#38 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 5:34 PM Last edited by matrix54 : 5th Sep 2019 at 6:00 PM.
Content is always given some kind of attention. They didn’t take out a huge marketing buget for some CAS assets. They spent more time on build mode than they did on CAS.

The fact that many of you will argue to the death about the inclusion of some clothing that many people wear is very telling.

I don’t remember anyone losing their shit when all of you paid for Hunnukah content is Seasons, but I’ll just shut up since that point was brought up before and it never stuck.

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Theorist
#39 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 6:05 PM
Quote: Originally posted by matrix54
Content is always given some kind of attention. They didn’t take out a huge marketing buget for some CAS assets. They spent more time on build mode than they did on CAS.

The fact that many of you will argue to the death about the inclusion of some clothing that many people wear is very telling.

I don’t remember anyone losing their shit when all of you paid for Hunnukah content is Seasons, but I’ll just shit up since that point was brought up before and it never stuck.


I've been talking about Maxis imposing their bullshit and messaging in this game for awhile now. The more obnoxious they get, the more conversations there are. Let's not pretend that somehow this update is different because it's not, although nice try for trying to turn it into something else. Funny how all of those conversations seem to be forgotten which is as you say, is very telling. You're free go scroll through my posts; I haven't deleted anything.

I guess the answer to my question is no. One cannot pick and choose what content is installed and no, it is not optional.
Scholar
#40 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 6:23 PM
Quote: Originally posted by matrix54
Content is always given some kind of attention. They didn’t take out a huge marketing buget for some CAS assets. They spent more time on build mode than they did on CAS.

The fact that many of you will argue to the death about the inclusion of some clothing that many people wear is very telling.

I don’t remember anyone losing their shit when all of you paid for Hunnukah content is Seasons, but I’ll just shut up since that point was brought up before and it never stuck.

I've been saying the same thing, and people conveniently ignore it. Funny how people are so tolerant and screams about rights - all until their own views are challenged.

So be it. Move. ~Jason Bourne
Simblr
Mad Poster
#41 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 6:38 PM Last edited by SneakyWingPhoenix : 5th Sep 2019 at 6:52 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by matrix54
I don’t remember anyone losing their shit when all of you paid for Hanukkah content is Seasons, but I’ll just shut up since that point was brought up before and it never stuck.

I'm neutral about the update pertaining content, because I kinda see both sides of the argument being valid. Perhaps Hanukkah was a one item and not overly-emphasize of its origin, so maybe that gives it a pass?

I think some wouldn't find the representation as a political ploy, if Maxis had focused and release such specific culture-heavy content (aside of global-average regular looking clothing) more regularly through updates since beginning. Like vast number of culture clothes, presence from number of different places around the world. Besides is, it's would of things developers chose to do what they like, instead - you know - putting resource of what player desire than themselves. Like the photography thing (one of the guru's) and the Strangeville on nobody's radar because Grant felt writing its sub-par fiction story.

I don't feel strongly about this though and it's quite good players, especially muslim player, will be able to play sims in such fashion/architecture setting choice.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Scholar
#42 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 6:52 PM
Quote: Originally posted by DeservedCriticism
I'm telling you: the difference is presentation. One of those was calmly and quietly included in a pack with no special attention drawn to it, the other had spotlights put on it.

The content itself in this patch isn't worthy of question, but the way EA/Maxis garners attention via such content absolutely is. What's more sincere: if I gift you something without even letting you know I was the one that gifted it, or if I make sure everyone on the planet knows WHAT A GREAT GUY I am whilst giving you a gift in a very rehearsed and carefully calculated way? The answer's obvious.


How was the presentation for the Lunar Newyear stuff? Was that PC too? Because that had maxis monthly too.
Mad Poster
#43 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 7:08 PM
Someone on Twitter tried really hard to make me look like a hypocrite but when I say I don't care for any religious content in my game, I mean ANY religious content. Even christmas trees, which some argue aren't even a religious symbol anymore. I think The Sims went far enough with that when they put a menorah in. Sure, Sims can be Jewish. Ethnically, but not religiously.

insert signature here
( Join my dumb Discord server if you're into the whole procrastination thing. But like, maybe tomorrow. )
Instructor
#44 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 7:14 PM
Quote: Originally posted by spidergirl79
How was the presentation for the Lunar Newyear stuff? Was that PC too? Because that had maxis monthly too.


Yeah, honestly. This isn't the first time they've done this. This is probably the sixth time, iirc.

First was probably trying to sell City Living as a "cultural" pack, and we all know how that ended. Every time one of these updates comes, it just translates to "minimal effort and lots of gloating about how PC they are." Island Living continued that tradition too in that they got high on Polynesian culture (I mean kinda. Their idea of "culture" is pretty barren and usually amounts to food and clothes. A sim version of Maui as a character would've been nice but nah takes effort)....aaaaaand then forgot to actually include gameplay. Pretty sure the next time we see "Living" in an EP title we should all run. All of the holiday updates also seem to spin the wheel on what culture they'll represent too. Why not just include ALL the parallel holidays in one update? Oh right, cause then they can't piecemeal them out and use them to replace as many actual updates with meaningful gameplay.

Bottom line is this is a game and needs gameplay. All of this stuff is just a distraction, and we're watching the effects: the discussion is no longer about "is this game shit" and lots of discussion about politics.

If we're going to insist on such updates, here's my question: why is it so god damned hard to make more than four sets of clothing and why not expand and just release a bunch of cultures in bulk? Because it was never about representation: it was about copping out of a substantial update by changing the convo to politics so that people are too busy pointing at the finger instead of pointing it at EA.
Scholar
#45 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 7:36 PM
Well I can definitely agree it needs more gameplay. (WHY WASNT THERE A HULA DANCE IN ISLAND LIVING)

I don't care one way or another about the clothes, I can't see myself using them anymore than I did the Lunar NewYear clothes, however... that middle eastern architecture stuff is nice. Might open a themed restaurant just like I did a Chinese restaurant with the lunar pack.
dodgy builder
#46 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 7:43 PM
Can't we just forget about this discussion? It's not going anywhere good. If they include negro or muslim cloths doesn't matter. As long as there still is no religious symbols in the game, I'm not going to care.

It's a good idea to not bother about things that isn't going to make your life any different. In the game you can just ignore it. I suggest those of you who finds the hijab offensive, to just pretend it's not there.
Instructor
#47 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 7:53 PM
Quote: Originally posted by spidergirl79
Well I can definitely agree it needs more gameplay. (WHY WASNT THERE A HULA DANCE IN ISLAND LIVING)

I don't care one way or another about the clothes, I can't see myself using them anymore than I did the Lunar NewYear clothes, however... that middle eastern architecture stuff is nice. Might open a themed restaurant just like I did a Chinese restaurant with the lunar pack.


I fully welcome the content itself, but game development is a pie graph and I don't consider losing things like gameplay or life states in exchange for cultural clothing to be a good trade at all. They have a finite amount of time that can be spent on resources, and they also seem adamant about making this particular pie as small as possible. That makes it extra painful to see development be wasted on this "hurrdurr we made four new sets of clothing BUT THEY'RE MUSLIM SO CRITICISM ISN'T ALLOWED OR YOU'RE A RACIST" bullshit. The update sucks on the principle there's nothing to play with, it has nothing to do with the style chosen. Island Living sucked on the principle there's nothing to play with, it has nothing to do with Polynesia. City Living sucked too, so did the Transgender patch, and it's always the same reason: laziness and lack of effort.

Like I've said before I'm disabled and I give EA shit for not making a disabled update. Here's the thing: I give them shit because they play it both ways and they speak to fans as if it'll totally happen when we KNOW they'll never do it and never intend to. Had Grant never tweeted like it's happening or if the Sims team didn't have this really awkward history where they've often banned people for requesting disabilities (honestly super weird, would love to know what that's about) then I wouldn't be giving them shit for it. What they're doing is exploitation so I give them shit for it and don't let them live it down. IF however an EA executive came to me and gave me the decision of including disabled sims or not, I'd say no beyond really easy implementations because I don't think wasting time on such a niche feature is wise, and instead we should get gameplay. Same exact thing with every one of these: they never make gameplay, they just make some clothes and call it a day.
Mad Poster
#48 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 8:00 PM
How do people not like this stuff? This would have been the perfect stuff pack with a few more items!
Screenshots

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Instructor
#49 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 8:03 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Volvenom
If they include negro or muslim cloths doesn't matter.


Did this word become ok again cause I must've missed that memo
Instructor
#50 Old 5th Sep 2019 at 8:20 PM
Quote: Originally posted by DeservedCriticism
Did this word become ok again cause I must've missed that memo

Either the person posting came from that time period or they are just unaware of how that particular term strokes some folks the wrong way. It took me aback for a minute as I'm not sure how I personally feel about it as a black individual. I had to reread it to make sure I read it right lol. Then again, to me, it seems like an old term but can be taken offensively now depending on the individual.
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