Hi there! You are currently browsing as a guest. Why not create an account? Then you get less ads, can thank creators, post feedback, keep a list of your favourites, and more!
Test Subject
#51 Old 21st Apr 2019 at 7:25 AM Last edited by ZorakiHusky : 21st Apr 2019 at 11:02 AM.
@happychappy

Yeah uhhh male pregnancy is already part of the game. Just hop onto the Strangetown neighborhood and play the Curious family, its literally one of the main household stories. Not only is Pascal's pregnancy alien induced, but he is also most likely in a homosexual relationship with the bastard (as in unwed) child of death itself and an old serial killer lady. You own and play Sims 2 judging by your profile info so it shouldn't come as a shock.

Also you're playing a game that legitimizes males and females earning equal pay, allows full occupational maternity leave, and is host to premade characters that are largely multi-racial.

TL;DR If you want to rant about good ole' "SJW clownland modthesims", at least check the foundation your house is built on, metaphorically speaking of course. Same goes to everyone else on here that is going on rather hypocritical tirades about "those dangerous leftist progressive ideologies". Its 2019 get real.
Advertisement
Top Secret Researcher
#52 Old 21st Apr 2019 at 3:38 PM
Quote: Originally posted by HarVee
Ah typical narrow mindeded response. Not surpirising to see that.

Ad hominem. If you don't have a real response, please refrain from responding.

Omnia - Fantasy / Mythological / Medieval Hood
Ephemera MoreColorful - SimpleSkin Recolors
Instructor
#53 Old 4th Aug 2019 at 11:00 PM
Something I feel strongly about and have to keep calm to not get banned. I'm against any restrictions on abortion whatsoever. Most of the anti-choice stuff here in the US comes from the Christian Taliban, but religion has no place in the government.
(warning - contains strong language - it IS the late, great George Carlin...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvF1Q3UidWM&t=7s
Top Secret Researcher
#54 Old 5th Aug 2019 at 5:54 PM
Quote: Originally posted by MattGo74
Something I feel strongly about and have to keep calm to not get banned. I'm against any restrictions on abortion whatsoever. Most of the anti-choice stuff here in the US comes from the Christian Taliban, but religion has no place in the government.
(warning - contains strong language - it IS the late, great George Carlin...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvF1Q3UidWM&t=7s

I agree with Wojtek that that isn't the way to go about an abortion debate. This is a highly serious subject, just joking it off is very ineffective unless you're just looking for validation from your peers.

While I understand the clip is for humor, using it in this context achieves pretty much nothing, except making pro-choicers seem crazy and like they know nothing about what pro-lifers actually stand for. It's filled with straw men. Even I can see that and I'm pro choice.

I find it interesting however that you want no restrictions on abortions whatsoever, point blank. In other words, are you ok with "aborting" during labor? In what way is that different from infanticide? Are you okay with killing babies?

In this case, pro-lifers concern about "killing babies" is absolutely justified.

Omnia - Fantasy / Mythological / Medieval Hood
Ephemera MoreColorful - SimpleSkin Recolors
Instructor
#55 Old 5th Aug 2019 at 6:33 PM
I'm in favor of "induced premature delivery" once it's viable and non-restrictions abortion before that. A woman shouldn't be forced to stay pregnant for 5 minutes once she doesn't want to be. Or course there's always the ignorant religious fanatics who say "just keep your legs closed", but that's not realistic.
Instructor
#56 Old 5th Aug 2019 at 9:36 PM
I'm talking about actual fanatics, not normal religious people. I mean the "Christian Taliban" - people like Mike Pence and those that want to force their beliefs on the rest of us by force of law. The ones that would be happy to make most of The Handmaids Tale real.
Instructor
#57 Old 6th Aug 2019 at 12:13 AM Last edited by MattGo74 : 6th Aug 2019 at 1:37 AM.
Those groups don't have the numbers in the US the Christians do and Jews tend to NOT try to force their beliefs on others. They actually discourage conversion. In the US they (the Christian exteremists) DO get laws passed. They are usually known as "Evangelicals." They helped elect Orange Hitler.
Also, I hate watching movies with subtitles.
Instructor
#58 Old 6th Aug 2019 at 2:28 AM
It's George Carlin. He's one of the greatest comedians of all time. If you don't know who he is, you must be very young. Anyway Jews think their views are for them and have no interest in making them political to push them on others. I like that about them. They mind their own damn business.
Test Subject
#59 Old 7th Aug 2019 at 10:45 AM
Quote: Originally posted by MattGo74
I'm talking about actual fanatics, not normal religious people. I mean the "Christian Taliban" - people like Mike Pence and those that want to force their beliefs on the rest of us by force of law. The ones that would be happy to make most of The Handmaids Tale real.


There are fanatics in every walk of life even in the abortion debate. Everyone tries to 'force' their beliefs on everyone else, its just the way we are as human beings. You believe abortion is right so you want it written into law, others may disagree, why does that automatically make you right and them wrong?

As an aside: It seems strange to me that bigotry, prejudice, intolerance, in almost all it forms is frowned upon, unless its directed against someone who believes in some form of "higher power", then its likely to be condoned and even encouraged.......quite often by the very people who are shouting that each man should be free to choose his own path. Why on earth would anyone care what another man believes?
Top Secret Researcher
#60 Old 7th Aug 2019 at 11:53 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
Why on earth would anyone care what another man believes?

Because it directly impacts on other people's lives, especially if it's politicians who base their decisions on their religion.

Omnia - Fantasy / Mythological / Medieval Hood
Ephemera MoreColorful - SimpleSkin Recolors
Test Subject
#61 Old 7th Aug 2019 at 4:00 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Pideli
Because it directly impacts on other people's lives, especially if it's politicians who base their decisions on their religion.


Yes, I understand that, but each man has a vote and is free to use it as he sees fit, so surely the people are responsible for the politicians they put in power? Everyone has a voice, some use it to get what they want and others will use it to whine and point fingers. You have half the population demanding abortion and the other half saying it is wrong, so either way someone's life is always going to be impacted.

I have yet to meet anyone who does not base their decisions on some form of 'belief/value system'. We all look at a situation, assess it and form an opinion based on our own life experiences, our values, our morals, our empathy, our compassion...etc. Some will look at abortion and decide the woman's needs have greater value and others will decide that the fetus has value as well, but you can be certain whatever side they pick, it will be because of myriad of different ideals/values/whatever. Religion is just an easy and convenient one to blame.

My point was that people should never have to defend themselves because they are gay or black, (or in my case because I'm African ), but its OK for them to have to defend themselves because they belong to a religion? Why? Prejudice comes in many different guises . Its so easy to promote ones own views or beliefs by denigrating or belittling someone else's. Its a lazy, cheap and nasty way of trying to win and argument, and is possibly the reason why a lot of dodgy politicians do make it into power.
Top Secret Researcher
#62 Old 7th Aug 2019 at 4:54 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
Yes, I understand that, but each man has a vote and is free to use it as he sees fit, so surely the people are responsible for the politicians they put in power?

Yes, and people who didn't put said politicians in place are right to criticize them as they see fit.

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
Everyone has a voice, some use it to get what they want and others will use it to whine and point fingers. You have half the population demanding abortion and the other half saying it is wrong, so either way someone's life is always going to be impacted.

No. Someone's life isn't affected by someone else's abortion, unless they are in direct relation with the person aborting, as in the father. Pro-life people are making it their business when it isn't.

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
I have yet to meet anyone who does not base their decisions on some form of 'belief/value system'.

The problem with using religion in this context is that it has no place in politics. Church and state should be separate, which it is in secular countries. As soon as you put your religion into political decisions, that means you are forcing the population to follow your specific religion when most people don't. Most other belief systems like ideologies can at least be somewhat justified by evidence, religion cannot. It is based on faith, which is belief without evidence by definition.

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
My point was that people should never have to defend themselves because they are gay or black, (or in my case because I'm African ), but its OK for them to have to defend themselves because they belong to a religion? Why?

Quote: Originally posted by Pideli
Because it directly impacts on other people's lives, especially if it's politicians who base their decisions on their religion.

And also because religion is a choice, as opposed to race or sexuality. If you can't defend your belief, why have it in the first place?

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
Prejudice comes in many different guises . Its so easy to promote ones own views or beliefs by denigrating or belittling someone else's. Its a lazy, cheap and nasty way of trying to win and argument, and is possibly the reason why a lot of dodgy politicians do make it into power.

And sometimes it's necessary because not all beliefs are equal. Would you treat Nazism with respect? Or do you see how some beliefs simply don't deserve respect?

Omnia - Fantasy / Mythological / Medieval Hood
Ephemera MoreColorful - SimpleSkin Recolors
Mad Poster
#63 Old 7th Aug 2019 at 5:11 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 7th Aug 2019 at 6:02 PM.
I'm of the opinion that if someone told me something was either legal or illegal "because a 1500+ year old book that they believed wholeheartedly in told them it should be so" I'd be skeptical to anything they said, no matter which belief system that book came from.

Whenever religion is mixed into for instance women's bodies and health, things get messy. If abortion laws were more based on science and knowledge, along with some non-religioius based common sense, then perhaps we'd be getting somewhere.

When I heard American presidents have to swear on the bible, I kinda understood why the American/US laws tend to be so strange, because if the laws are in part based on one religion that everyone seem to disagree on, things get messy. It should not matter which religion the president has, or anyone working for him or anyone practicing law - they should do what's best for the country and the people within it, and not based on outdated knowledge from an old book which for the most part has very questionable morals in it, and also not on modern interpretations of it, because that can go either way.

If people want to have personal beliefs, that's fine as long as they practice it in their spare time - but people in any sort of power position should not be allowed to base their reasoning on whatever religion they belong to thinks is right while making or practicing laws. Of course, if their personal beliefs, reasonable laws and their religion say the same - that's fine, and perhaps then it's mroe common sense than religion.

Abortion has many sides, and I don't think it's a clean "yes or no" question. There are grey areas (such as the viability of the baby once it's reached a certain number of weeks, or the mother's physical and/or mental health, or the baby's health) where it becomes difficult to say whether it's right to go through with an abortion. Making abortion completely illegal is absolutely not the right thing to do, as this may drive the woman to desperation, which has several downsides which may endanger the life of the woman, perhaps even the baby if it is born. There are a lot of reasons why abortion should be legal (though maybe with a few restrictions in regards to gestational age and viability of the baby in the late 2nd and 3rd trimester), and there are very few reasons why abortion should be illegal (I can't think of any).

Most abortions are carried through before 12 weeks, and the fetus isn't even getting close to a viable gestational age until 18 weeks anyway (18-21 weeks is a greyzone, after 22+ weeks viability of the baby is more likely the more weeks go by). For the cases happening in the late 2nd and 3rd trimesters, it's more often than not based on health-related issues regarding the woman or the baby. If the pregnancy has reached a stage where the baby may be viable but for some reason the woman does not want to keep the baby, there should be some kind of support system in regards to social support so she can keep the baby, or a system for adoption, though it shouldn't be forced.

Most of all, people need to be taught properly about family planning, prevention of unwanted pregnancies, contraceptives and birth control, and most of all the word "no". Kids/teens need proper sex-ed, and early (when they're getting close to the start of puberty, preferably before and after - so they're prepared before hitting puberty, and later can get their questions properly answered). Sex-ed should be science-based and not biased by religious beliefs, and it should be mandatory. In a lot of cases, abortion would've been easily preventable by these means.

Religion mixed into school is sadly one of the reasons why sex-ed is missing from people's heads. They're taught things like abstinence-only before marriage (which most likely isn't going to work), and some are wrongly taught about contraceptives, maybe even that they shouldn't be using them. Then they're told abortion is wrong, and "somehow" end up with 10+ kids. Perfect way to mess with people's heads...
Test Subject
#64 Old 7th Aug 2019 at 5:47 PM
@pideli You come across as aggressive, why? Because I'm really not disagreeing with you at all, I simply said that people are a lot more complex than your perception of them, and no one is clever enough to have everyone all figured out.

Where I live abortion is available and I really have no judgement either way, I have no interest in telling people how to live their lives or what to believe, no one has that right, not you and not me, so what is your point? I'm not going to get into a high school debate with you about religion, its off topic, its boring AF and goes on and on and on, and to be honest I couldn't care less about anyone's opinion on the matter. As I said, you don't have the right to tell anyone how to live their lives and you can't cherry pick whose rights are worthy and whose are not, because that is bigotry. Everyone has rights and that includes freedom of religion, well at least it does where I live.

Quote: Originally posted by Pideli
And sometimes it's necessary because not all beliefs are equal. Would you treat Nazism with respect? Or do you see how some beliefs simply don't deserve respect?
Now this comment is just silly and more than a little offensive! Hitler was a criminal and a murderer, who in their right mind would defend him? It is interesting that you brought him up, considering he caused the deaths of millions of people and a large portion of those who were slaughtered because of their religion, whether they practised it or not. Any form of bigotry, prejudice or racism is dangerous and beyond that its totally irrational and nonsensical, and more than a little stupid.
Staff - Moderator
staff: moderator
#65 Old 7th Aug 2019 at 6:03 PM
Let us please try to civil to each other in the forums.
Top Secret Researcher
#66 Old 8th Aug 2019 at 1:22 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
@pideli You come across as aggressive, why?

Aggressiveness is your interpretation, I can't answer for you why you feel it that way, nor is it relevant. I come across as aggressive to you. I would refrain from ad hominem if I were you and focus on the arguments.

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
I simply said that people are a lot more complex than your perception of them, and no one is clever enough to have everyone all figured out.

That's a red herring. No, that wasn't your main thesis, nor was that in my contention. Literally, where do you say that? And where have I disagreed with that? Your main point was, like you said:
Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
My point was that people should never have to defend themselves because they are gay or black, (or in my case because I'm African ), but its OK for them to have to defend themselves because they belong to a religion? Why? Prejudice comes in many different guises . Its so easy to promote ones own views or beliefs by denigrating or belittling someone else's. Its a lazy, cheap and nasty way of trying to win and argument, and is possibly the reason why a lot of dodgy politicians do make it into power.

And my points are that 1) yes - people do need to defend their religion, especially if they use it to (attempt to or succeed in exerting) control over other people's lives. 2) Because religion is a choice while sexuality and race are not so they're not relevant comparisons, and 3) beliefs don't need to be respected, and sometimes it's even necessary not to respect them.

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
Where I live abortion is available and I really have no judgement either way, I have no interest in telling people how to live their lives or what to believe, no one has that right, not you and not me, so what is your point?

My point is that politicians do tell people how to live their lives - that is literally their job. So it is our job to criticize them, and that includes their beliefs, which don't deserve to be respected just because, or should I say, especially not because they use their religion. I don't tell people how to live their lives, or what to believe, if that's what you're suggesting. What I'm doing is telling my beliefs and why I think your beliefs are wrong. That I certainly have a right to.

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
I'm not going to get into a high school debate with you about religion

Then don't.
As if all debates about religion need to be high school level? It is very relevant in this thread because most pro-life arguments I see stem from religion.

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
As I said, you don't have the right to tell anyone how to live their lives and you can't cherry pick whose rights are worthy and whose are not, because that is bigotry. Everyone has rights and that includes freedom of religion, well at least it does where I live.

That's a straw man. How have I told people how to live their lives and how do I cherry pick whose rights are worthy and whose are not? Freedom of religion is exactly why I'm against using religion in political decisions, because freedom of religion is also freedom from religion! You can not call it freedom of religion when one religion is pushed upon the population in the form of laws, like anti abortion laws.

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
Now this comment is just silly and more than a little offensive! Hitler was a criminal and a murderer, who in their right mind would defend him?

Of course it's silly. Of course you don't respect Nazism. But you're missing the point. I took that as an example to showcase how ridiculous your argument was. You implied that beliefs need to be respected, when certain beliefs clearly don't. Like Nazism. And why should I need to respect any other belief that I strongly disagree with?

Omnia - Fantasy / Mythological / Medieval Hood
Ephemera MoreColorful - SimpleSkin Recolors
Test Subject
#67 Old 8th Aug 2019 at 8:54 AM
Well, I do agree that politicians need to be held accountable, I wont argue with that!

Quote: Originally posted by Pideli

And my points are that 1) yes - people do need to defend their religion, especially if they use it to (attempt to or succeed in exerting) control over other people's lives.
Especially if they use it to control other peoples lives? Surely ONLY if they use it to control other peoples lives? Because otherwise, you would be interfering with their rights when they are not interfering with yours.
Quote: Originally posted by Pideli
2) Because religion is a choice while sexuality and race are not so they're not relevant comparisons,
Ok, I accept that, but abortion is also a choice and and those who are against it then also have the right to try and prevent it, surely, regardless of their reasons.
Quote: Originally posted by Pideli
3) beliefs don't need to be respected, and sometimes it's even necessary not to respect them.
But behind every belief is a person and as YOUR poster said, people have rights, so you may choose not to respect his beliefs but you have respect his rights, and one of those rights is freedom of religion.......and freedom of speech to promote that faith if he chooses.
Quote: Originally posted by Pideli
As if all debates about religion need to be high school level?
Actually, I was wrong, in high school we were often made to argue for the other side, forcing us to see another point of view and I don't see that here. Would you be able to speak up for the rights of someone with beliefs you "strongly disagreed" with, if it meant life or death?
BTW I do notice you side stepped my comment on Nazism and the annihilation of the Jews because of their faith.

Quote: Originally posted by Pideli
It is very relevant in this thread because most pro-life arguments I see stem from religion.
Really? In a predominately white/European first world country perhaps, but most definitely not where I come from. I live between two countries in Africa, one who allows legalised abortion and another who doesn't. When the laws were changed to allow legal abortion the predominant argument against it was 'its against our culture". Not religion....culture. Im my experience here in Africa, people are way more likely to protect their culture over their religion. Religion is what you believe, but your culture is your identity. We have 11 official languages so you can imagine the variety of beliefs, cultures and values there are! Blaming one sector of the population, namely the religious, for all woes is simplistic at best. Tragically, cultural beliefs can be so strong that some would rather bring the child to term and abandon it. The other country I live in forbids abortion, except in extenuating circumstances and I don't think it ever comes up for debate, its simply taboo. Ironically, this country is more forward thinking and for the most part women have a stronger voice.

Quote: Originally posted by Pideli
I don't tell people how to live their lives, or what to believe, if that's what you're suggesting. What I'm doing is telling my beliefs and why I think your beliefs are wrong. That I certainly have a right to.
This is kinda contradictory don't you think? By telling someone that you think "my beliefs are wrong" you are surely trying to influence them, in a similar way that an evangelist would try to convert? Otherwise why would you bother to voice an opinion at all?

My original argument was that people shouldn't have to defend anything about themselves, and your argument was they do need to defend themselves if what they do impacts another persons life. Which I totally agree with, of course you need to justify something if it has wide repercussions for other people! :D

So, I get it.......you are pro-abortion, which I really have no beef with, and you despise all religion and, unfortunately, also those who follow one. I on the other hand believe ALL people have the right to have their say and promote their views, regardless of whether I think they are dumb or not.
Mad Poster
#68 Old 8th Aug 2019 at 2:43 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 8th Aug 2019 at 2:53 PM.
The thing is, if abortion is legal it does not have to mean that "you" in particular need to do it. It means the option is there should the pregnancy be an issue for some reason (health, family planning, etc.). If "you" personally are against abortion, no one says "you" absolutely should do it, so it being legal wouldn't really concern "you". But someone else may want to or have to go through it for various reasons, and abortion being illegal complicates matters for them. Most of the time their choice will never have to concern "you" - BUT if you vote for and strongly argument for "your" opinion of making abortion illegal, then "your" choice CAN make that other person's life very difficult, in some cases even be dangerous and outright kill that person if all cases of abortion are illegal (some countries have a complete ban on abortion, even in cases where the woman is in danger of dying or complications that can harm her, or where she has to carry a baby to term that for medical reasons is not going to survive outside the womb anyway). I wouldn't say that's pro-life or in any way humane.

Personally, I don't think I could have gone through an abortion unless there were heavy-weighing medical reasons for it, but I still think it is important that abortion is legal to at the very least some degree, because there are a lot of reasons why someone would have to or would want to go through with it, and those people shouldn't have to be hindered by unreasonable laws.
Test Subject
#69 Old 8th Aug 2019 at 3:09 PM
@simmer22 I agree with what you say, there must be an option for woman not to be forced to go through with a pregnancy. We have had cases where young girls will hide their pregnancy, carry the child to term and abandon or even kill the newborn, which is awful. I cannot imagine how desperate you have to be to do something like that. Where I live abortion is legal, but as I said before there are a number of reasons that young woman choose not to go the abortion route, and sadly a lot of the time it is economic and shame. We also, I can only speak for my country, need to place more focus on sex education and reproductive health in our schools.
Test Subject
#70 Old 8th Aug 2019 at 4:41 PM
Sure they are an ethnic group but how do you separate a Jew from Judaism, it is intrinsic to their identity, culture and heritage whether they practice it or not.

Yes Hitler was a bastard, and no I didn't forget, he also hated homosexuals, people with disabilities etc.....but what does that have to with modern day abortion?
Top Secret Researcher
#71 Old 8th Aug 2019 at 8:52 PM
Wojtek, not watching the movie doesn't mean you aren't willing to challenge your view about abortion. That's what this thread is for. Not everybody has time or interest to watch a whole movie just for a debate's sake, let alone a foreign language one. If you have something to add, why not write it in your own words?

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
Especially if they use it to control other peoples lives? Surely ONLY if they use it to control other peoples lives? Because otherwise, you would be interfering with their rights when they are not interfering with yours.

No, there are other situations where they need to defend their religion, e.g. in a debate. I'm not interfering with their rights by asking them why they believe the way they do? If there's no answer, maybe that begs the question why they should have those beliefs in the first place.

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
Ok, I accept that, but abortion is also a choice and and those who are against it then also have the right to try and prevent it, surely, regardless of their reasons

What simmer22 said.
Quote: Originally posted by simmer22
The thing is, if abortion is legal it does not have to mean that "you" in particular need to do it. It means the option is there [...] If "you" personally are against abortion, no one says "you" absolutely should do it, so it being legal wouldn't really concern "you". But someone else may want to or have to go through it for various reasons, and abortion being illegal complicates matters for them. Most of the time their choice will never have to concern "you" - BUT if you vote for and strongly argument for "your" opinion of making abortion illegal, then "your" choice CAN make that other person's life very difficult

So no, we're not interfering with pro-life people's rights by not letting them interfere with women's. They want to stop making it a choice.

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
But behind every belief is a person and as YOUR poster said, people have rights, so you may choose not to respect his beliefs but you have respect his rights, and one of those rights is freedom of religion.......and freedom of speech to promote that faith if he chooses.

Yes, behind every belief is a person, that's why you should respect the person and not make personal attacks like telling them how aggressive they are and accusing them of saying things they didn't say, misconstruing their beliefs, or accusing them of being bigots when they aren't, for example. ( )
I like to think that I do a good job separating the beliefs from the person, which is like, step 1 of a productive discussion about these topics.
The thing is, you should support someone's freedom, like freedom of religion. But that freedom ends where someone else's begins. Your rights can not interfere with another person's, which is what happens when pro-life people demand abortion bans. Which means their "freedom" trumps other people's freedom not to agree with them. Also, I absolutely support free speech, where did you get the idea that I don't?

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
Actually, I was wrong, in high school we were often made to argue for the other side, forcing us to see another point of view and I don't see that here.

Why would I argue for someone else's point of view here?

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
BTW I do notice you side stepped my comment on Nazism and the annihilation of the Jews because of their faith.

Yeah, because that was another red herring. What is it that you want to discuss? You are constantly trying to distract from the main topic.
Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
Yes Hitler was a bastard, and no I didn't forget, he also hated homosexuals, people with disabilities etc.....but what does that have to with modern day abortion?

Good, you agree.

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
Really? In a predominately white/European first world country perhaps, but most definitely not where I come from.

Okay, I'm mainly talking about abortion in the Western world, because that's where I assume most of us in this thread is from.

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
Religion is what you believe, but your culture is your identity.

Culture is also a set of beliefs and resulting behaviors, which are not above criticism. They are harder to define than a religion though, since many rules and customs are unwritten.

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
Blaming one sector of the population, namely the religious, for all woes is simplistic at best.

I don't? However, religious people are definitely to blame for anti abortion laws in the US for example. How many of those who made the decision in Alabama to ban all abortions are atheists or non religious?

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
This is kinda contradictory don't you think? By telling someone that you think "my beliefs are wrong" you are surely trying to influence them, in a similar way that an evangelist would try to convert? Otherwise why would you bother to voice an opinion at all?

No. I'm using my free speech to offer an alternative view, that action is the very base point of a democracy. I am not voting for politicians that are going to take away your rights, or harassing/threatening/abusing you in order to force you to live or believe a certain way. As opposed to, say, an Evangelical Christian who threatens with eternal damnation in hell if people don't follow their specific beliefs, or radical Muslims who throw gay people off buildings. Do you see the difference?

Just because I tell my opinions and refute yours, it doesn't automatically mean you now have to be like me. Do you mean people can't debate in an open political landscape or else they're somehow FORCING each other to live and believe a certain way? Gimme a break. How are you ever going to achieve change if you're somehow a bigot just by discussing the matters?

Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
My original argument was that people shouldn't have to defend anything about themselves, and your argument was they do need to defend themselves if what they do impacts another persons life. Which I totally agree with, of course you need to justify something if it has wide repercussions for other people! :D

Then they DO need to defend something about themselves. You are making blanket statements and implying people should never have to defend themselves when it comes to their religion.
Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
My point was that people should never have to defend themselves because they are gay or black, (or in my case because I'm African ), but its OK for them to have to defend themselves because they belong to a religion? Why?


Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
So, I get it.......you are pro-abortion, which I really have no beef with, and you despise all religion and, unfortunately, also those who follow one. I on the other hand believe ALL people have the right to have their say and promote their views, regardless of whether I think they are dumb or not.

You're wrong on all those notes. Wow. Amazing. No, that is what you read into it, I haven't said any of that anywhere. That's another straw man. Otherwise, please provide quotes. I am not "pro abortion", I would not encourage anyone to have an abortion, since that is not my business, and it's generally a pretty traumatizing thing. However, I would support someone who decides they want to do it. I support their choice. Not the abortion itself. Furthermore, there is a huge, HUGE difference between despising religion and the people who follow it. The first is a belief, and like my poster said, beliefs don't have rights, people do. An important part in political discourse is separating the beliefs from the people. You shouldn't generalize people and say that all people of this belief system believe a certain way, and treat them differently because of it. Instead you should attack the beliefs themselves. Which is all that I do. I also don't despise all religion. I despise some religions more than others, and some are virtually harmless, like Jainism. I don't despise a religion that doesn't preach hate and ignorance. I would suggest ceasing with the "I, as opposed to you" high horse argumentation since you consistently straw man my beliefs.

I also noticed you didn't reply to these points:
Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
I simply said that people are a lot more complex than your perception of them, and no one is clever enough to have everyone all figured out.

That's a red herring. No, that wasn't your main thesis, nor was that in my contention. Literally, where do you say that? And where have I disagreed with that?
Quote: Originally posted by Jezzie
As I said, you don't have the right to tell anyone how to live their lives and you can't cherry pick whose rights are worthy and whose are not, because that is bigotry. Everyone has rights and that includes freedom of religion, well at least it does where I live.

That's a straw man. How have I told people how to live their lives and how do I cherry pick whose rights are worthy and whose are not?

Omnia - Fantasy / Mythological / Medieval Hood
Ephemera MoreColorful - SimpleSkin Recolors
Instructor
#72 Old 8th Aug 2019 at 9:10 PM
I'm from the US and the anti-abortion movement here is almost 100% religion based. I would also assume most of us are from N America, Western Europe or Australia. Another thing I often say - "you are not being oppressed by being prevented from oppressing others."
Instructor
#73 Old 8th Aug 2019 at 10:00 PM
It's not just me, but a lot of, if not most, Americans HATE reading subtitles. We prefer the English dubbed in. If I want to read I read a book. If I watch a movie I want to watch and not have to read subtitles, which distract from everything else and can sometimes be hard to read - my vision is not so good. Considering abortion the equivalent of murder is foaming at the mouth level.
Test Subject
#74 Old 9th Aug 2019 at 8:12 AM Last edited by Jezzie : 9th Aug 2019 at 1:17 PM.
@Pideli
Ok well, thanks for your reply. I guess we will have to agree to disagree as you have very strong opinions, so I doubt anything I can add would make any difference to our discussion. I'm a strong believer in each man to his own, so I respect your views and wish I could be a little more 'black and white' in my thinking. It would probably make life a lot simpler!


I would like to just answer one of your questions,
Quote: Originally posted by Pideli
Why would I argue for someone else's point of view here?

Because it forces you to see an issue from another man's perspective, it develops lateral thinking, widens your views and broadens your mind. It may not make you change your mind but it does help a lot in figuring out how to go about solving issues that may develop between two parties, especially if you can see why someone may think the way they do. It definitely helped me greatly in my work to see that nothing is ever cut and dried.
People have reasons for what they believe. For example, lets look at what Wojtek wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
If you ask me, I'm an opponent of abortion per se and believe that every human has the right to be born. I have a personal reason to think this way but I'm not gonna write about it here, because it's too intimate.
Everyone has a reason for how they respond to situations and no one has the right to tell them they are wrong just because they may not agree with their thinking.

@Wojtek
Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
I just wanted to point out that WWII is not only about the Jews, but also people of other ethnicities whose fate wasn't any better in occupied countries. I'd love someone to watch the movie I posted, but it seems no one wants to challenge their view be it pro or against abortion, because the movie is rather unbiased. Now carry on with your debate. I won't be disturbing anyone.

I'm sorry Wojtek, I realise that my reply to you came off as rude, that was not my intention at all, I could have chosen my words better. I apologise.
Mad Poster
#75 Old 9th Aug 2019 at 9:33 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Wojtek
I prefer a voice-over to subtitles, but some films aren't available in a different version If you don't want to watch it, don't. It's your choice.


I don't like voiceovers, and have started to avoid dubbing in some cases, too. Since most movies tend to be English/America in origin, I'm used to subtitles because that is what I had to use if I wanted to see the more popular movies (we rarely get voiceovers here). Nowadays, after getting used to no subs from various series that weren't subbed, I often watch without subtitles, or I put on English ones if it is an option, because things often get lost in translation. Things often get lost in subtitles, too. I often prefer original English with no subtitles as long as the sound is okay.
 
Page 3 of 6
Back to top