TS3 was an exercise in frustration. Tell a Sim to use the toilet? They stand around five minutes before walking to the bathroom. Then they stand in front of the toilet another five minutes to stare at it before deciding to sit down.

And they do that weird, zombie like "waiting" stance while they wait in Sims 3....*shudder*

This is a weird rant but I just kinda wanted to get it off of my chest. I dislike TS4 as a sims game, but I find myself getting pulled into the community because of how much poc/sims-of-color representation there is on tumblr, YouTube, and other platforms for TS4 sims compared to TS2 sims. Not that I am complaining since I love the TS2 community, but the cc hairs in particular for anything curlier than a wave are particularly lacking. If I knew how to convert hairs from 4 to 2, that would be perfect. Might have to be something worth looking into before classes start up again...

1. When that one specific cc lamp you want to use because it matches won't go on top of that one cc end table you want to use.
2. Not being able to put a door right at the bottom of the stairs.
3. CAS. is. so. slow.
4. Sorting through cc (cos names are wild and don't always make sense so it takes forever to find what you don't want). Like why can't I see all the things I want to delete? Why isn't there a standardised rule or naming cc to make everyone's life easier??
5. Doors and windows have different types of glass? Why is some glass blue and other glass clear? Can't I have both? (That's why I don't understand the glass recolours that exist for maxis windows- are they blue or are they colourless and I'm too scared to try because what if I mess up because defaults are scary?!)

@Noa1500 for #1, did you try an OMSP? (though you might end up with people sticking newspapers or books underneath the lamp, which is a pain)

@Bulbizarre It only worked once using an omsp. A true mystery it was. I think I have since gotten rid of both the lovely table and lamp because that frustration was not worth it

Most of hairs I had downloaded were exactly those so I was frustrated the few dreads/braids that looked decent still weren't 100%. If i knew how to just fill in those bald spots, those hairs would have been really good!

@Noa1500, there is an omsp for end tables that you can put the object on to make it placeable in the right slot: http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=317716.
Or you can edit the item make sure it fits where you want to place it; a lot of deco items seem like you should be able to place them in a certain slot, but actually don't "fit" because of the way the object is classified. These tutorials should be able to help with that problem: http://modthesims.info/t/82685 and http://modthesims.info/t/140183.

About the CC representation issue, though, @cheezypuff121P, I feel like it might just be a timing thing--better tools available for the newer games and better/more modding knowledge. Trust me, there were creators back then who felt a little like you do and did make different kinds of sims and cc that represented more types of people. Maybe not as many as you would like, but they existed.

Also, too, you have to realize, the style of cc has changed. Especially in the early sim days, there was a lot of... how do I put this politely... "photo realistic" cc, that basically looked like a high res picture put into the game. From what I see on Pinterest anyway, creators nowadays are meshing their styles with the game style better, so that cc looks more natural and fitting in the game (or at least in their photos!). And while there are still some creators, across all the games, who still want and create for that realistic, photo shoot style of cc, a lot of them seem to be taking care to either be mindful of textures or to mod their games to make the lighting match their desired look. So yeah, a lot of stuff today looks really good and even better than ever because they're made differently. I have some cc from years ago that I hang on to, but I will admit that some cc, especially hairs, are simply outclassed by cc made today in the same category. And it's probably because they're made a little differently and use different textures.

Basically, I think you're seeing what you're seeing for TS4 because there were 3 generations of modding before it; creators today are not only building on the modding of past games, but also, a lot have come to be because of the popularity of the past games. The Sims is a bigger franchise now and creating cc for it is more well known and prevalent. I can't imagine a simmer today with TS4 who doesn't know that there's a plethora of cc for it online--though some must exist somewhere. But that number is not nearly as many as the number of simmers back in the day who didn't know about cc for TS2 and TS1.

Yes, it'd be so perfect!



You're right, and I tried not to cast a critical eye towards the modding community itself, since TS2 has wonderful creators and meshers still creating excellent CC items for us to use and I appreciate it endlessly. I suppose my frustrations are more with the comparatively-limited options. It'd be nice to have more diversity and inclusion in the types of sims you can make with CC since TS4 simmers currently have more of a luxury in that regard, but you're right. Modders have moved on, BG meshes have become more compliant with different hair textures and volumes (heck even the TS4 sims team released kinky and curly hairs for sims), and that has led to a larger representation overall in that part of the Sims franchise. I just wish some of it could wiggle its way backwards into TS2 because I'm admittedly quite selfish and I'd love to make sims with hairstyles that resemble my own. :P

How is it selfish to want to be able to make a Sim that bares resemblance with your own appearance, or what you are used to seeing? It's selfish of the white part of society to not understand that representation matters, just because they are unable to step outside of their own experience for a moment and think or listen. THAT is selfish. Wanting representation is not, that's being human.

True, but I also feel a bit awkward complaining about it when I have the capability of solving my own problem(s) by learning to do the things that other creators, meshers, and CC creators do. I believe that's where the selfish feeling comes in -- instead of putting in the work myself, I'm choosing to feel somewhat disappointed because others aren't doing it for me. It's not for lack of trying since I've tried unsuccessfully to mesh things in the past, but converting meshes might be easier.

Eta: I guess what I'm trying to say is that no one should feel ashamed for wanting increased representation, but while I realize this I still feel a bit bizarre "ranting" about it.

It's a pretty polite rant, so it's ok. I agree with you and I've made some effort to make my own game more of what I want to see.

Here's a couple things I was able to do with very little knowledge. Maybe something will be useful for you:



Since you have a foot in both communities, maybe you can talk to some of those in TS4 about collaborating with some meshers working in TS2. That'd be truly inclusive, right?

Nice, @Sunrader! I've done similar things in my game. It really does help make the game experience more immersive by creating more unique backstories and sims.

My connection to the TS4 realm is more of a quiet-yet-critical observer at best (and a snarky heckler at worst ) so I'm not quite sure that would ever happen. I don't really play TS4, but I do end up seeing a lot of TS4 content on pinterest and tumblr and feel slight twinges of envy everytime lmao.

@cheezypuff121P, don't feel bad about not making things for yourself--at least not this time! I spent a good chunk of time last night trying to find a TS4 to TS2 hair conversion tutorial and came up empty. I even went to a few tumblrs of simmers I know that do conversions and still nothing. The gist of the related posts I found was that the creators didn't use/have a tutorial and used what they knew about converting from TS3 to make the conversion.

So, yeah, resources for TS2 aren't always available, . I would start with the TS3 to TS2 hair conversions tutorials, if you're serious. Sometimes simmers convert TS4 hairs to TS3 or simply make both. Those can be found on the TS2 tutorial database. As for clothes, though, there are some 4to2 tutorials out there. I can link the ones I found if anyone is interested.

> be me
> be playing the curiouses
> vidcund gets abducted
> it was in his wants and it'd get him to platinum
> he returns
> platinum mood
> heckyeah.jpg
> he rolls another want
> i wait in anticipation
> 'meet aliens'
> goddamn it vidcund

@cheezypuff121P
I bet if you went up to the WCIF part of the Sims 2 forum and asked for everyone to list their favorites and where to find them of the sort of hair you're looking for, maybe with a few real life pictures of what you want, you'd discover that a bunch of us have knowledge of where to look for something you want, or personal hordes of older cc that might need a little love to look up to date but would make a good base. You might not get everything you'd dream of, but I have a TON of really curly hairs in my game that are all Pookleted, so you might not like those textures, but knowing, say, that you want Nouk's meshes, or Hysterical Paroxysm's meshes, in whichever recolors, would probably help with your search terms if nothing else.

That moment (yeah, double post, but it's been a week, simmers!) when you try to find an outfit for a girl child sim for everyday in the winter in your cc-light AGS game.

And you give up, go to Sims 2 Downloads, and install everything Fakepeeps ever made.

Long sleeves and covered legs, EA, there's three feet of snow on the ground outside and these sims aren't wealthy enough or environmentally unfriendly enough to turn the heat THAT high! Californians!


Edit: That's 476 .rar files. I . . . yeah. Data dragon.

@TheDraizeTrain @cheezypuff121P Bald spots in the scalp of a hair you otherwise like might be fixable with the newish scalp caps. http://maxis-continued.tumblr.com/p...p-cap-accessory Only works for some hairs, really short ones show the cap. Maybe a set of smaller ones going back further on the forehead and shorter up the neck could be made for those.

As per this post:

I could be wrong about much of this because I don't know much of anything about meshing, especially about hair meshing, but from what I've read, the problem with converting hairs between TS4 and TS2 is that many TS4 hairs do not have alpha channels. The "system" is very different with TS4, more so than differences between TS3 and TS2.

See, in TS2, you have a hair mesh. By itself, it is generally just a basic multi-layered shape with little or no detail. The details of the shape of the style comes not from the mesh but from part of the texture file called the alpha channel. You can greatly alter the overall appearance of a hair -- lengthen it, shorten it, remove whole chunks/strands of hair -- simply by editing the alpha channel, which is a mask. Think of it like painting a room. When you do that, you use masking tape to cover things you don't want to get paint on -- window sills, moldings, sections of walls that you want to paint in a different color, etc. The alpha channel is the same. It "tells" the mesh what parts of itself to reveal or not reveal. The revealed parts of it get the texture in the texture file applied to it, the masked parts do not. This creates the detailed shape of the style. This "system" is what the game expects to have, what it was designed to display.

In TS4, many hairs -- the so-called "clay" hairs -- do not have alpha channels. Instead, I believe the meshes themselves are far more detailed and the texture file contains the texture only, not texture + alpha. This is what TS4 expects and is designed to display. The problem is, when such hairs are converted for TS2, because the mesh shapes are more complex, you end up with very high-poly meshes. Which, for many TS2 players, cause problems because TS2 is designed as a low-poly game, meant for the average computer built in, say, 2006, not 2016. And of course we all know how fast computer tech moves. A decade in computer years is a hundred years in the rest of the world. Many video cards -- even higher-end ones -- when running TS2 will not render high-poly hair meshes, and you end up with bald heads instead.

Now, skilled converters can work with higher-poly meshes and make them lower-poly for TS2 without losing a lot of quality, without making them look "chunky," but it is not easy to do and it is not a skill that a lot of people have. I can think of only three people off the top of my head that do it. (And no, I am not one of them. ) Also, the existing main hair textures for TS2 -- the Pooklet-type ones, the "Maxis-match" ones -- are all geared to be used with an alpha channel. If that's not there and/or can't be added, then retexturing becomes far more difficult. I think all of this is why you don't see a ton of TS4 "clay" hairs converted for TS2. It's not as simple as just converting the mesh; it's altering it to make it something that TS2 can "understand." Not easy.

That said, there ARE some TS4 hairs that are "alpha hairs." When converted to TS2, however, they also tend to have huge poly counts. The latest ones are generally around 25K-30K+ polys. (For reference, in TS2's "hey day," a 10K-poly mesh was considered exorbitant. ) Some modern machine and video cards can handle such things just fine when running TS2. My Simming computer doesn't seem to have a problem, even though (or perhaps BECAUSE) it's an older machine and the video card is an older model. But many do. It's an old game trying to understand technology that didn't exist when it was made. Things get "lost in translation," so to speak. That results in bald heads.

As for the lack of ethnic hair in TS2...Frankly, I think the main problem is that the hair creators who cranked out hairs left and right when TS2 was the only game in town -- Peggy, Rose, Raon, Newsea, Skysims -- are/were all Asian. Chinese mostly, though I think Raon is Korean. Asian folks living in Asia probably have even less of an idea of what black people's hair is like and the styles they wear than your average white American does. Also, many people who are making TS4 hairs are simply ripping off IMVU and Second Life, which are geared toward representing all sorts of people because on those platforms the idea is that you create an (idealized) avatar of yourself to "play." Ripping those off wasn't an option in TS2's hey day. That said, there ARE some ethnic hairs here and there -- Nouk's, for instance -- but, yeah, few and far between. Again, not for a lack of wanting them so much as a lack of knowledge as to how to make them given TS2's technical limitations no matter how good one's computer is. Ethnic styles tend to be complexly-shaped. That'd be hard to do in a low-poly environment.

So, TL;DR, it's not that TS2 creators don't WANT to create/convert more ethnic styles or that TS2 players don't want to be diverse. It's more that TS2 itself, and/or TS2 when running under technology it doesn't fully understand, can't handle the newer, higher-poly stuff. And since TS2's community has shrunk and hair meshing from scratch is perhaps the most difficult, time-consuming thing you can do in terms of creating stuff for the game...Well, there are fewer people who can and/or are willing to do it.

Some ethnic hair (if that is the correct term?) Someone posted this link a few days ago on Discord. https://ms5starchic23.tumblr.com/po...-anon-that-just At first I thought it wasn't showing, but it's in the custom bin.

There are other interesting hairs there but I worry about hair with a lot of curl/dreds/twists, assuming that will be higher poly. How do you find out poly's?

Generally speaking, hairs with curls/dreads/twists/braids aren't any higher-poly than smooth hairs. It's because the details are in the texture, not the mesh. They CAN be (but generally aren't) higher-res textures. Most hairs these days have 1024x1024 textures, some have 512x512. Higher-res textures also cause more system strain, but just a different sort of strain, using up texture memory rather than rendering power.

But, it's easy to tell the polycount of a hair in SimPE. Open the mesh file, select the GMDC from the list of resources, and in the plug-in view, the polycount shows like this:

The "Faces" number is the polycount.

Cool, thanks iCad.

Y'welcome, Jo.

BTW, that works for everything that has a mesh, not just hairs. Open the mesh, find polycount. Some clothing is ridiculous, too. And I've jettisoned lots of bits of tiny clutter that's 5K+ polys. I really wish more people who convert stuff from newer games would list polycounts, especially if they don't have the capability to lower polycounts themselves, because some of that stuff? Nope. Nope, nope, nope.

I have to wonder where you looked and what styles you're looking for? Because after your post I thought, I don't have enough dreads etc. type hair and I went and downloaded a ton off allthehairs. It's all under curly.