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Original Poster
#1 Old 4th Sep 2017 at 12:15 AM
need help with feminine frame male torso mesh
first, before I start, if anyone actually has a rig for feminine frame male for blender, that will solve all my problems. if not....

if you use blender, please help. I, being sick and tired of my feminine frame boys having breasts when wearing female clothing, decided to try and make a customized torso. I have also made a customized bottom, but if any of you use opposite frames a lot, you'll know that, if a feminine frame male is wearing a female bottom and male top, most CC will cause clipping issues, and vise versa. this was making it so my customized bottom conflicted with the default torso. so what I did was import the male torso onto the female rig, got rid of her chest, and attempted to merge them. this one looks better than my previous attempt, but I am still having trouble. I am BEGGING someone to PLEASE help me with this mesh. I've spent months trying to create a custom Fmale body, and I FINALLY got the bottom right. this is very important to me, but I'm still just a beginner when it comes to blender. here is the file:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Alg_w_piyWUqgRYMenUuvsf6yrVE

I really hope someone answers this one, so many of my threads have been ignored, it's disheartening.
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Test Subject
#2 Old 4th Sep 2017 at 11:01 AM
Why do not you just mesh the model?
Its sims 4 right?
Ms. Byte (Deceased)
#3 Old 4th Sep 2017 at 2:43 PM
I don't understand the problem. There's no separate rig for feminine frame males as far as I know, all teens - elders of both genders use the same rig/skeleton. The feminine and masculine frames are done with morphs. Also I'm not seeing the clipping you mentioned when using a male top with a female bottom or vice-versa, but I tested only with EA clothing - the CC you're having problems with may not be set up correctly for gender frames. If you could point me to specific clothing that's clipping I can take a look.

Are you trying to make a specific top? Why not start with a male clothing mesh and change the texture? If you want to start with a female mesh you'll have to flatten the breasts. Maybe like I said I just don't understand the problem you're having.

Sorry but I can't help you with Blender. If you upload the package I can look at the mesh in Milkshape.

Please do not PM me with mod, tutorial, or general modding questions or problems; post them in the thread for the mod or tutorial or post them in the appropriate forum.

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Test Subject
#4 Old 4th Sep 2017 at 3:13 PM Last edited by Nothead : 4th Sep 2017 at 3:26 PM.
I think the CC you use is old. the sims 4 had an update that unlocked the clothes for both genders, and as our moderator friend said, your CC may not be set up for this.

Edit: I use blender, and as Cmar said, it's not difficult to flatten the breasts if you're making a top from a female mesh even if you're new to mesh editing

It is sad to think that nature speaks and that mankind does not hear it.
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Original Poster
#5 Old 4th Sep 2017 at 11:06 PM
no, the CC isn't old. unless they are EA recolors, any CC clothing that are new meshes that are designed for one frame will cause clipping issues when mixed with a clothing part of the other frame. for example, let's say my feminine frame male sim is wearing female pants that are a new mesh, and then he's wearing any male top that's skin tight around the area where the torso mesh and the bottom mesh meet. there is clipping. since I made a custom bottom specifically for FF males using the female rig, it clips with male tops. it doesn't clip with female tops, but female tops make him look like he has breasts. so, in order to have no clipping issues AND no breasts, I need to make my own FF male torso. (I'm honestly not sure how I can be any more clear.) I'm not sure what you mean by "mesh the model." also, if flattening breasts is easy, this is news to me, because I tried that already.

here is the package: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Alg_w_piyWUqgRfQvX946BUFSUZU

I've already combined the female and male torsos, but there are issues with the UVs and the mesh isn't very smooth. because of this, I haven't tried it in game.
Test Subject
#6 Old 5th Sep 2017 at 12:10 AM
Hello Reitanna,
I think I understood your problem. My Sims 3 had this same clipping when I wore other gender clothing, or adult clothing on teenagers. The clipping was even worse in fat sims (because the mesh of one does not fit in the other ,then you see a clipping). this is related to the compatibility of one mesh to the other.
what you can do is see if there is not a male frame for that feminine item that you want to use, or vice versa... its only clipping right?

edit: I talked about sims 3, but the engine and the company are the same, so this can be repeated in sims 4 if the clothes are for a single gender (and yes, in sims 3 the men had breasts when they put on women's clothes)

It is sad to think that nature speaks and that mankind does not hear it.
Ms. Byte (Deceased)
#7 Old 5th Sep 2017 at 1:00 AM
I tried your female torso on a male in feminine frame with a male bottom. As you can see below there was no clipping or gap at the waist. Maybe the problem is in the bottom you're trying to use.

In TS4 there is a new version of the meshes that came with the gender-flexible patch. It contains data that matches the seams at the neck, waist, and ankles to make both male and female clothing usable for both sexes and both frames without gapping or clipping. Both the top and bottom have to have that data and it has to be correct.

If you upload or link to the bottom(s) you're having problems with I'll take a look. And pictures of the problem would be helpful.
Screenshots

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Original Poster
#8 Old 5th Sep 2017 at 3:03 AM
well, that's because those are EA bottoms. T_T here is the bottom I created: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Alg_w_piyWUqgRh_4-qiftRRLNII

I'm trying to create a better FF male body to create clothes specifically for them. the bottom is a success (after many tries), so I'm happy about that, it just doesn't work with the FF male default torso or non EA male shirts
Ms. Byte (Deceased)
#9 Old 5th Sep 2017 at 10:34 AM Last edited by CmarNYC : 5th Sep 2017 at 10:56 PM.
Okay, when I combine the EA male nude top with your bottom I think I see what you mean. There's a slight mismatch at the waist and it looks kind of like there's another bottom mesh overlapping yours on the belly and butt, very strange. Is that what you were talking about? On the sim I was using also a tattoo on the hip got cut off. Possibly it shows up with CC tops if they're short - the EA tops except the nude are all down to the hips.

The problem seems to be with your bottom, not your top, but at this point I have no idea what's causing it. I'll have to do some experimenting.

Edit: So far I've only seen this with the EA male nude top. I tried making a short custom top so the problem would show but your bottom looks fine with it. I need to see the custom male tops you say don't work with it, or at least to know if they're all based on the nude top.

Edit2: I found one CC male top that also causes the problem. And I found this in the EA documentation about the gender-flexible patch and how it's implemented:

Mixing Male and Female Tops and Bottoms

The male top geometry is lower than the female top geometry at the waist. And similarly the male bottom geometry is lower than the female’s at the waist. This means mixing the two will either cause a gap (when using female top and male bottom) or an overlap (when using male top and female bottom).
-- The gap is corrected with the addition of an extra piece of geometry the fills the gap and uses the “stitch” data added to each part to weld the vertices together so that there is no seam.
-- The overlap is most likely to occur with skintight male tops paired with female bottoms and may result in the top and bottom geometry intersecting. The solution for Maxis authored content is primarily to author male versions of female pants and use the new mOppositeGenderPart field in the CAS Part resource to pair the two assets. Custom Content creators may want to do the same, or pay special attention to this combination when authoring their content to ensure it looks acceptable.

From this it looks like mesh overlap may be unavoidable in the combination of skintight male top and female bottom. The best way to handle this IMO is for you to remake the bottom starting with a male mesh. Or if you don't mind waiting I can see if I can convert the female mesh to male by applying the f to m morph and get something usable. No guarantee but it might work.
Screenshots

Please do not PM me with mod, tutorial, or general modding questions or problems; post them in the thread for the mod or tutorial or post them in the appropriate forum.

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Online Sims - general mods for Sims 3
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Banned
Original Poster
#10 Old 5th Sep 2017 at 11:55 PM
Quote: Originally posted by CmarNYC
Okay, when I combine the EA male nude top with your bottom I think I see what you mean. There's a slight mismatch at the waist and it looks kind of like there's another bottom mesh overlapping yours on the belly and butt, very strange. Is that what you were talking about? On the sim I was using also a tattoo on the hip got cut off. Possibly it shows up with CC tops if they're short - the EA tops except the nude are all down to the hips.

The problem seems to be with your bottom, not your top, but at this point I have no idea what's causing it. I'll have to do some experimenting.

Edit: So far I've only seen this with the EA male nude top. I tried making a short custom top so the problem would show but your bottom looks fine with it. I need to see the custom male tops you say don't work with it, or at least to know if they're all based on the nude top.

Edit2: I found one CC male top that also causes the problem. And I found this in the EA documentation about the gender-flexible patch and how it's implemented:

Mixing Male and Female Tops and Bottoms

The male top geometry is lower than the female top geometry at the waist. And similarly the male bottom geometry is lower than the female’s at the waist. This means mixing the two will either cause a gap (when using female top and male bottom) or an overlap (when using male top and female bottom).
-- The gap is corrected with the addition of an extra piece of geometry the fills the gap and uses the “stitch” data added to each part to weld the vertices together so that there is no seam.
-- The overlap is most likely to occur with skintight male tops paired with female bottoms and may result in the top and bottom geometry intersecting. The solution for Maxis authored content is primarily to author male versions of female pants and use the new mOppositeGenderPart field in the CAS Part resource to pair the two assets. Custom Content creators may want to do the same, or pay special attention to this combination when authoring their content to ensure it looks acceptable.

From this it looks like mesh overlap may be unavoidable in the combination of skintight male top and female bottom. The best way to handle this IMO is for you to remake the bottom starting with a male mesh. Or if you don't mind waiting I can see if I can convert the female mesh to male by applying the f to m morph and get something usable. No guarantee but it might work.


forgive me, but I'm getting a bit frustrated. if you notice, when a FF male wears a male bottom, it's lower on the waist and crotch area, same on FF females. specifically with MF male bulges, the mesh will collapse on a feminine frame and either flatten against the body or turn into a tiny spike. I created this bottom specifically for feminine frame, but regardless, that doesn't keep the male torso from being a male torso. most, if not all, CC bottoms cause that clipping issue, as well as some EA meshes. I've made MANY FF male sims during the last few months of me owning the game, I know how the bodies work. that's why I want to make a custom torso using the female rig so that I don't have that problem. there's nothing wrong with the bottom I made, and to prove it, i'll show you, though I didn't want to have to do this. I honestly just wanted help fixing my mesh.

https://i.imgur.com/erPGcI0.png
Ms. Byte (Deceased)
#11 Old 6th Sep 2017 at 7:14 AM Last edited by CmarNYC : 6th Sep 2017 at 2:24 PM.
All I can tell you about the clipping issue is to repeat what the EA documentation says. As you said, male meshes are lower at the waist than female meshes. Because of this when you combine a skintight male top with a female bottom the meshes will overlap. Yes, there's nothing wrong with your mesh but according to that information it's just not going to work with skintight male tops. If there's a way to fix this I don't know of it, sorry.

But I think we got sidetracked by my trying to solve the clipping, and your original problem was how to fix the appearance of your female mesh based FF torso with flattened breasts? This looks like you need to smooth the normals in the chest area where the breasts were flattened and fix a few bumps on the mesh. Since I don't use Blender I can't tell you specifically how to do it, though. I could also see if I can morph the male top to the female shape with the waist higher.

Edit: I've attached a new top package. This was done by starting with the male top, morphing it to the female shape, and flattening the breasts. This is much easier to do with the simpler male chest geometry. Also had to slightly tweak the UV mapping at the waist.

BTW it's confusing when you say 'female rig' - rig usually means the mesh skeleton but I think you mean the standard female shape.
Attached files:
File Type: zip  FFmaletorso mod lod0.zip (179.1 KB, 567 downloads) - View custom content

Please do not PM me with mod, tutorial, or general modding questions or problems; post them in the thread for the mod or tutorial or post them in the appropriate forum.

Visit my blogs for other Sims content:
Online Sims - general mods for Sims 3
Offline Sims - adult mods for Sims 3 and Sims 4
Banned
Original Poster
#12 Old 6th Sep 2017 at 10:39 AM
I say "rig" because that's what I'm getting the mesh from. i'll take a look at this package in the morning.
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Original Poster
#13 Old 6th Sep 2017 at 10:28 PM
I'm jealous of people who have more experience with 3D modeling than I do. I wish I could snap my fingers and become a master. -_- anyway, that torso looks pretty good, the only issue is the shoulders (textures of tops look wonky at the seams), but I think I can fix it. thank you for your help, with this, I think I can finally complete this body.
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